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Re: Slipsliding away

Kevin,

I had the same experience a few years ago.  In my case I hit some sand at the apex of a turn going to work in the early morning.  I was probably going 15 mph +- 3mph and was heeled over pretty good.  It was dark and I hit a patch of sand at the apex thanks to the road construction crew that didn't sweep up their mess.  My bike did the ole helicopter on the right valve cover trick and my foot got crunched (but not broken) under the bike somewhere.  I enjoyed your comment about hopping up and rushing to upright the bike.  Cars making the same turn as me drove on past without concern.  I picked up the bike without a problem but had to go back home to extract some gravel out of my knee and change my pants (they were torn, not wet).  I was wearing my Darian jacket and helmet but neither of those took any damage.

Based on your comments if there wasn't any visible sand or rocks I'd have to guess you went over the center of the road where a film of oil builds up.  A smooth power-on through the turn at that low of a speed shouldn't have exceeded the traction reserve on clean dry, even cold, road.  You didn't say whether it was concrete or asphalt, the latter more likely to be slippery at the center.  I've been riding for 40 years and have gone down twice, both times making a turn and encountering loose gravel/sand in a corner.  I think the only thing I learned was the importance of safety gear and to look more carefully at the surface conditions of the corner (easy to say).  It it true that the proper turn mechanics is to swivel your head to look down the road to where you're going to go but not at the expense of ignoring the immediate surface conditions.

Joe Kiefer
Houston
2000 R1100RT, 34K miles

----- Original Message ----
From: oilheads-digest <oilheads@xxxxxxxxx>
To: oilheads-digest@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:47:02 AM
Subject: oilheads-digest V4 #148



oilheads-digest       Tuesday, January 29 2008       Volume 04 : Number
 148



In this issue:

    Slipsliding away
    Re: Slipsliding away
    RE: Slipsliding away

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:05:14 -0500
From: "Doyle, Kevin CAPT SEA07, 073" <kevin.doyle@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Slipsliding away

The bike: 2000 R1100R, 17K miles, graphite (the stealth color)
Weather: upper 30's, cold, grey, dry
Location: Alexandria, VA
Intersection: 6 lane 45-50 mph road turning onto a 35-40 mph 4 lane
 road
Safety gear: the full Monty- everything, steel toe boots, padded pants
and jacket.

There I was Saturday afternoon about two minutes into a ride, down
shifting prior to a right hand 90 degree turn, approx 10-15 mph. I hit
the apex, twisted the throttle for a smooth exit and down I went. The
bike just COMPLETELY went out from under me. I watched it scoot about
5-8 feet away from me, still in gear, still sliding on the cylinder
 head
guard and my right side city case. I have this odd memory of watching
the bike turn a couple of 360's while on its side.

I got up, ran to the bike, hit the kill switch and looked at 10-20 cars
bunching up waiting to get past me. Of course, the adrenalin is really
flowing and I'm in that tunnel where time is either slowing or speeding
up, don't remember which.

I know of one or two other cars trying to get past me, like downed
motorcyclists in the road is no big deal for them. I then tried to lift
the bike myself but couldn't. Two guys in a Mercedes and a large
delivery truck, pulled over to help me lift the bike. One guy tried to
grab the windshield brackets and the other guy put his hand on a hot
cylinder head (guess two minutes into the ride, it wasn't that hot.)
After we all found good lifting points, the bike came right up.

Once the bike was up, Mercedes guy left, delivery guy helped calm me
down. I felt NO pain (shock, anger, embarrassment, yes) but all my
fingers and toes, joints, etc., were all fully operational. I gave the
bike a once over and saw some scuffing on the case and some moderate
grinding down of the cylinder head guard and that was IT. I fired the
bike up, it ran fine. Thanked delivery guy and drove it to a parking
 lot
for better inspection.

Saw no damage (other than pavement scuffing and grinding) and no
injuries . . . Unbelievable. Testament to the strength of BMW bikes.
Safety overpants were scraped and steel toe boot was ground up where
bike likely came down on the toe momentarily. (Granted speeds were low
 .
. . )

Lucky, lucky, lucky. Like a good oilhead, I followed all that drama up
with a 40 mile ride on Saturday and an 80 mile one on Sunday. The world
seems ok.

What did I learn? Safety gear helps and works. Head to toe. Watch out
for the "tunnel effect." The adrenalin, your emotions. I wanted to LIFT
that bike and get it up ASAP. But a voice said, "don't mess yourself
 up,
get help." I had the presence of mind to make sure my helpers didn't
 use
the cylinder head or windshield brackets as lift points. Slow down,
breathe, take it easy, you're alive and functional. In retrospect it
could have been very easy to be running around and flailing with
earplugs and a helmet, locked in a sensory deprivation "cocoon", not
seeing or hearing other traffic . . .

Lastly, why did it happen? Two reasons come to mind, and one bears
further discussion. The first, I maybe hit some sand that gets spread
throughout Rust Belt cities from November through March and when I down
shifted, down I went. That sand will take you down in half a second.

The second possibility, and I really wonder about this one, cold
tires??? I don't know. This time of year, how long do they take to warm
up? Is it a consideration in the first few minutes of a ride? I have to
think it is.

I take the board through all this, because there are lessons learned
sprinkled throughout the whole event . . .

Thoughts, comments? Thanks for listening.

Be careful out there!

KD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:25:18 -0500
From: John Merlinw Williams <jmerlinw@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Slipsliding away

Kevin:

What tires did you have mounted. For sure there is a correlation  
between tires and temperature. Some of the newer compounds, like the  
Bridgestone BT-021s (in my experience) work a bit better at these low  
temps and are a big improvement in damp/wet conditions. However at  
the temperatures you were riding in, surface temperature is a huge  
factor. Tires get warm on the street chiefly from sidewall flex, and  
unless you are doing a lot of heavy braking, in those temps, you  
might never get up to a decent working temp for cornering - because  
the road surface is cooling the tire more than sidewall action can  
generate heat in the compound.

I do a lot of trackdays, and on a 45 degree spring morning, we always  
remind the newer riders, who come equipped with tire warmers, that  
"tire warmers are all well and good, but no one makes track- 
warmers" (yet). And still they crash...

Of course sand will do that, too. But it wouldn't be good to write  
this off as an occasional sand incident, when the "cold" requires  
caution everywhere..

Glad you and the bike made it through okay. We just can't skimp on  
the safety gear.

- -- john merlin ...

John Merlin Williams

1999 Ducati ss 750
1999 BMW R1100RS



On Jan 28, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Doyle, Kevin CAPT SEA07, 073 wrote:

> The bike: 2000 R1100R, 17K miles, graphite (the stealth color)
> Weather: upper 30's, cold, grey, dry
> Location: Alexandria, VA
> Intersection: 6 lane 45-50 mph road turning onto a 35-40 mph 4 lane  
> road
> Safety gear: the full Monty- everything, steel toe boots, padded
 pants
> and jacket.
>
> There I was Saturday afternoon about two minutes into a ride, down
> shifting prior to a right hand 90 degree turn, approx 10-15 mph. I
 hit
> the apex, twisted the throttle for a smooth exit and down I went. The
> bike just COMPLETELY went out from under me. I watched it scoot about
> 5-8 feet away from me, still in gear, still sliding on the cylinder  
> head
> guard and my right side city case. I have this odd memory of watching
> the bike turn a couple of 360's while on its side.
>
> I got up, ran to the bike, hit the kill switch and looked at 10-20  
> cars
> bunching up waiting to get past me. Of course, the adrenalin is
 really
> flowing and I'm in that tunnel where time is either slowing or  
> speeding
> up, don't remember which.
>
> I know of one or two other cars trying to get past me, like downed
> motorcyclists in the road is no big deal for them. I then tried to  
> lift
> the bike myself but couldn't. Two guys in a Mercedes and a large
> delivery truck, pulled over to help me lift the bike. One guy tried
 to
> grab the windshield brackets and the other guy put his hand on a hot
> cylinder head (guess two minutes into the ride, it wasn't that hot.)
> After we all found good lifting points, the bike came right up.
>
> Once the bike was up, Mercedes guy left, delivery guy helped calm me
> down. I felt NO pain (shock, anger, embarrassment, yes) but all my
> fingers and toes, joints, etc., were all fully operational. I gave
 the
> bike a once over and saw some scuffing on the case and some moderate
> grinding down of the cylinder head guard and that was IT. I fired the
> bike up, it ran fine. Thanked delivery guy and drove it to a  
> parking lot
> for better inspection.
>
> Saw no damage (other than pavement scuffing and grinding) and no
> injuries . . . Unbelievable. Testament to the strength of BMW bikes.
> Safety overpants were scraped and steel toe boot was ground up where
> bike likely came down on the toe momentarily. (Granted speeds were  
> low .
> . . )
>
> Lucky, lucky, lucky. Like a good oilhead, I followed all that drama
 up
> with a 40 mile ride on Saturday and an 80 mile one on Sunday. The  
> world
> seems ok.
>
> What did I learn? Safety gear helps and works. Head to toe. Watch out
> for the "tunnel effect." The adrenalin, your emotions. I wanted to  
> LIFT
> that bike and get it up ASAP. But a voice said, "don't mess  
> yourself up,
> get help." I had the presence of mind to make sure my helpers  
> didn't use
> the cylinder head or windshield brackets as lift points. Slow down,
> breathe, take it easy, you're alive and functional. In retrospect it
> could have been very easy to be running around and flailing with
> earplugs and a helmet, locked in a sensory deprivation "cocoon", not
> seeing or hearing other traffic . . .
>
> Lastly, why did it happen? Two reasons come to mind, and one bears
> further discussion. The first, I maybe hit some sand that gets spread
> throughout Rust Belt cities from November through March and when I  
> down
> shifted, down I went. That sand will take you down in half a second.
>
> The second possibility, and I really wonder about this one, cold
> tires??? I don't know. This time of year, how long do they take to  
> warm
> up? Is it a consideration in the first few minutes of a ride? I  
> have to
> think it is.
>
> I take the board through all this, because there are lessons learned
> sprinkled throughout the whole event . . .
>
> Thoughts, comments? Thanks for listening.
>
> Be careful out there!
>
> KD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:55:58 +0200
From: "Clive Liddell" <cliddell@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Slipsliding away

Kevin,
Thanks for sharing.

A similar incident here:  I had finished a brake service on my R850R
 and
went for a ride just at dusk to check it all out.   Now on this
 (familiar)
piece of road they had done tarmac resurfacing work that day and had
 left
all that fine black dust all over, of course completely invisible to me
 at
that twilight time...  Yes, as I turned onto that road (fortunately at
 a
very resonable speed), like you, the bike and I were "slipsliding away"
 in a
millisecond. 

Of course I just had my "working on bikes" clothes on and I recall
 thinking
how "protective" the cylinders were when my foot and leg were NOT
 trapped
under the bike - the only damage to me was a bruised shin on the
 "untrapped"
side where my leg must have swung forward onto the cylinder.

I (and a friend) have made a bracket to accomodate the BMW RT rack on
 the R
bike so I can use my Top Box on either bike and this box took a blow
 which
knocked it right off and there were the obligitory scuff marks on the
underside on the cylinder head cover and that was about it.  Top Box
 clipped
right back on as firm as ever and my cotton trousers were doing an
 excellent
job of mopping any blood oozing from scratches to the "under" leg and I
 was
on my way again...   Those cylinders again - great help in lifting the
 bike
back up ;>)

Comments:  I have felt cold tyre "movement" on frosty mornings and IMO
 its
more controllable especially when you learn to expect it in the first
 few km
but unexpected sand/fine grit puts you down very quickly!!

Regards
Clive Liddell
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa
R850R
R1100RT 

------------------------------

End of oilheads-digest V4 #148
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