Re: Wish List

[Steve Makohin <wateredg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello Tom,

On 2/10/04 8:05 PM, Tom Brown tbrown@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>I just don't agree with you one bit!

Which parts, though? It's best for you to give me a counterpoint in 
context, otherwise we can easily get defocused and go off in a dozen 
directions. On a point-by-point basis, I think I present some pretty 
compelling arguments.





>Sure, you say you're not interested in a new S with a 19% gain in HP and 60
>lbs. less weight, but when you're really ready to shop for a new bike, what
>are you gonna buy?....

Do I hear the sound of a Can Of Worms opening? There are two aspects to 
this question. The first is exactly as you present it: What will I get 
when I start shopping for a new bike? That depends for the reason for a 
new bike? Stolen R1100S today? I'd get another R1100S. 10 years down the 
road, and I just want something new? I can't answer that without first 
seeing what will be available at that time.

The flip side is the available toys tempting people to crack their 
wallet. It looks like some people are excited by the new GS. Presumably 
they are old GS folks. Ideally, a manufacturer has products that are 
always (or frequently) tempting its customers to upgrade, even if only 
for style reasons. Maybe I'm the odd guy out not being tempted, or maybe 
it's BMW's "way" that doesn't focus on this tactic and figures one sale 
every decade or so is good enough, and we're pleased with that.




>It may not be good enough, but it's still the best out
>there for riders who really ride their bikes.  There are more popular bikes,
>but they're suburban toys and their price point is much lower too.   BMW
>management has stated that they're not interested in the sport bike market
>because it's just not profitable enough.   Why chase a narrow, overcrowded
>market full of people with no money?

You're presenting this argument to the wrong guy. I really like my 
R1100S. I'd buy another in a heart-beat if mine were tonight stolen. So 
it's the "best" bike of all makes for a guy like me. But I believe I am 
in the minority because of the relatively small numbers of new customers 
coming to the BMW brand. I also wonder how many current BMW customers 
will be so excited by the new bikes that they'll run out and buy one? I 
don't know, but for me, the new boxers are not enough for me to want to 
dump my current bike for a new one. Again, maybe I'm in the minority for 
not being sufficiently wowed.

How about it, list members? How many of you are wowed by the new R1200GS 
engine, versus how many are simply pleased to see another incremental 
(though welcome) change?




>I read that you are enamored with Aprilias at the moment.   I have a 2000
>Mille R.  It's a fine bike.  I have put 10,000 miles on it in the 4 years
>I've owned it.  I have 8500 miles on my '04 RT that I've owned since August.
>The Mille has higher peak HP, weighs less, handles "better".  Why do I ride
>the RT so much more?  Why did I buy another RT after putting 62K on my old
>one?   Heritage, right?
[...]

You're getting of into a bunch of unrelated topics. For example, what 
does your preference for an RT vs an Aprilia have to do with whether the 
boxer engine is a heritage design or not? My previous posting spoke at 
length about that element.




>The Aprilia Falco is a pretty rideable bike...The Aprilia Futura has...
>...The new Mille R...
[many snips]

I think you're chucking stones at an empty field (not hitting anything). 
I didn't claim "Aprilia is better than BMW" or that my next bike will be 
one. I don't know how your newly introduced topic has anything to do with 
anything I've said in this thread.




>Your peak power wishes do not take the requirement of a broad band of torque
>into consideration.   The guy who made the comment that 101 HP is plenty if
>you have the widely spread meaty torque curve was right on.   It's far more
>important than peak power.   Peak power and lying ass dry weight claims just
>sell magazines....
[...]

While I support your argument about the importance of torque, peak power 
is far from meaningless. Consider the fact that a GSX-R600 can beat an 
R1100S in a standing quarter mile sprint, and you'll start seeing where 
horsepower gets noticed. That makes a BIG statement that BMW's "sportiest 
boxer yet" (as it was marketed before the R1200GS) can be bested by a 
little 600 cc "rice burner". More details about this available upon 
request.

Yes, on the street, and when riding within legal speed limits, torque 
matters more than peak power in most cases. Good thing that motorcyclist 
look only at such practicalities when considering a new bike ;-)